FORMAL CONFERENCE

** New group name "Jim Brain Live in C=on (go COM COM)" selected**
.Gordon>?
.Chuck>Yes, Gordon?
.Gordon>what is logging
.Chuck>It is making a record of the conference, as it procedes, so that it can be published later
.Gordon>THX
.Chuck>eyeth you asked a question
.eyeth>Thanks- I asked when C=Hacking will come out? ga
.Chuck>Jim?
.brain>Well, I'll admit it's been a while, but I hope to have the next issue out here in a week or so. I took a self imposed sabbatical this year :-)
.brain>.
.eyeth>?
.Chuck>yes, eyeth?
.eyeth>Can you give us a sneak peek at the TOC? ga
.brain>Well, let's see.
.eyeth>Briefly, of course. :)
.brain>I've got a spseudo stereo circuit to make all your SIDS sound like they are in stereo, and, I've got some info on an HTML viewer.... Might even be able to get the app in the magazine. The regular columns are in there, and some trivia. Oh, yeah. a circuit EPROM burner, I believe, but I'll have to check. It's either the EPROM burner carticle I'm going to run, or the UART article.
.TimJ>?
.brain>Stay tuned. I haven't made up my mind yet :-)
.brain>.
.Chuck>Go ahead TimJ
.eyeth>Thanks.
.TimJ>first of all Jim, it's a pleasure to meet you...
do you find there are many newbiees on the commodore scene or is it a case of being lean and mean (survival of the fittest)? ga
.brain>I find both. I get emails from power users that are looking for geogif
one minute, then an email from some family that has just purchased a 64 at a garage sale the next minute. I would have to admit that the latter isn't a prevalent as the former, but they both exist.
.Tim>!
.brain>Some times, its a user that has packed his machine away long ago, and just recently found it
.brain>.
.Chuck>Okay, Tim, go ahead
.Tim>It seems to be many of the "new" Commodore users are emulator users or are looking for games. ga
.Chuck>Jim, have you found that to be true?
.brain>I'll admit, I get those folks, as well as the "Jim, tell me how to Hack" types, but there are some folks who use emulators for nice things. I personally have an emulator at work.... I can;t take my CBM to the office, but I can have it there, if only virtually. It helps when someone asks about a BASIC question or I want to check something out while at work. I try to steer the game seekers away from me, though, sicne I don;t do games on any platform (if only I had that much free time).
.brain>.
.eyeth>?
.Gordon>?
.Chuck>Yes eyeth?
.Chuck>then Gordon
.eyeth>What is your main use of your CBM computers?
.eyeth>ga
** WELD just joined "Jim Brain Live in C=on (go COM COM)" (13 members now) **
.Gordon>This may be for technical night, but I can't get any gif to decode.ga
.brain>I program on them to keep my ML skills sharp. Most of the SW I write never make it to the generral public, but it keeps me sharp.
.TimJ>?
.Chuck>Gordon's question next
.brain>Part of my side business is programming embedded controllers, where the 8-bit is alive and well. Gordon, Some GIF's are tough to decode on a Commodore. Not only is there GIF87A format, but the GIF89A format, which includes animaions, and some other extensions. Not all GIF decoders work on the newer 89A formats. But, I can usually help if people let me know where he GIF is.
.Chuck>TimJ, you're up
.TimJ>is there now, or do you think there will ever be a way to view JPEG files? ga
.brain>Well, I think there is, but unlike GIF, which simply compresses he pic, JPEG compresses and loses some of the info. The formula it uses is more complex than the one for GIF. I would expect it can be done, but I have to admit it might tax a 1MHz machine.
.Gordon>I download some gif ?
.brain>Probably a SCPU enabled machine is more up to the task. Not only that, but both pic types requires memory to do their work., .brain>.
.Chuck>Next?
.Gordon>Can you give a step by step to get and use a gif?ga
.brain>Sure.
.brain>Find a GIF that you want, download it to your machine and treat it like a program. No translation, binary transmission.
.Gordon>I have not done any binary yet.ga
.brain>Then, get one of GeoGIF vgif, or (there's another for the 128, but I can;t rememberr the name off top of head). Yep, GIF's have to be downloaded as binary. If you need specific ddirections on top of that, I'll have to know exactly how you access the Internet or whatever you're trying to get the GIF off of.
.Gordon>I'm using Novaterm 9,6.ga
.brain>That would best to save until the conf is over.
.Gordon>OK
.eyeth>?
.Chuck>Go ahead eyeth
.eyeth>Can you give us a prediction or some sort of forecast as to the state of the CBM 8-bit platform 5 years from now?
.eyeth>ga
.brain>Well, it's hard to do that for any platform, but my crystal ball says: In 5 years, there will be a new internet appliance marketed by CMD. It will run around the 65816 (SCPU IC), but will have a compatibility module sold for it that wil offer 64 compatibility. The machine will address the sound and graphics limitations of the 64, but still be very cost effective.
.Gordon>?
.Chuck>Yes Gordon
.brain>In fact, as of Isue 20 of CW, CMD has finally made it public that they are looking into producing a mahine along this line.
.brain>.
.eyeth>!
.Chuck>Gordon
.Gordon>Cost effective-500,1000,1500?
.brain>$200 or so.
.brain>maybe even lower.
.Gordon>GREAT
.brain>.
.Chuck>Eyeth?
.eyeth>Wow. I would buy one at that price. Anyway, some grumbling here... I have yet to receive my issue of CW #20... :(
.eyeth>ga
.brain>Mine showed up today.
.Tim>!
.Chuck>Yes Tim?
.brain>I put a special announcement on VICUG since I knew others were EAGERLY awaiting their issue.
.brain>.
.Tim>C= World should be in your mail box in the next week or two. ga
.brain>Yes.....
.Chuck>Next?
.brain>I also predict that we will have TCP/IP and PPP and email and news and FTP before this time next year, but I think a browser might take until a 1.5 years from now.
.Joe>?
.brain>.
.Chuck>Go ahead Joe
.Ed>!
.Joe>Jim I have been trying to get the gifs to view on C= I finally got it so the 64 can view them. but the 128 will NOT I cant remember the name of the 128 viewer right now what is the best SIZE for viewing?
.Joe>GA
.brain>Well, it's tough too tell exactly how big is too big, due to compression, but the smller the gif and the fewer colors it uses, the better.
.Joe>OK thanks that is a big help
.brain>However, someone really needs tyo write a better GIF viewer.
.brain>.
.Chuck>Next ?
.Ed>!
.Chuck>Ed go ahead
.Ed>A web browser wouldn't be impossible on the C=. The Apple II folks now enjoy one, no graphics, but the links are clickable.
.Ed>(ga)
.brain>I didn't say it was impossible, but writing one is going to take time, and the protocol stack and other aspects must be completed first. If Arkanix Labs ships NetStack on time, then a web Browser might arrive by early next year, but that remains to be seen.
.eyeth>?
.brain>There's an interesting story about Web Browser Talk. Last year (1996), at the Lansing Area Commodore Expo. I was there, with Maurice Randall and some others, and we talkexd about my work on an HTML viewer, Maurice's WAVE, and other stuff. Well, Maurice noted that he had simply said that his Terminal Program (the WAVE), might be beffed up to include Web support after it was finished. Now, one year later, it is so firmly engrained in people's minds that the WAVE is a Web Browser, that it's no use to argue against.
.Chuck>LOL, that is so true, Jim
.brain>However, for the record, the WAVE is simply a terminal program, and it hasn;t been worked on since this time last year, since Maurice has been working on Project G (GEOS 3.)
.brain>.
.Gordon>?
.Chuck>Eyeth, you had a question?
.eyeth>Yes. Uh, I know you can't speak for Arkanix, but do you know if NetStack will be a native app, or a GEOS app?
.eyeth>ga
.brain>I simply do not know. If I had to guess, I would say non-GEOS, since getting UARTs to work well under GEOS is tricky, and only Maurice Randall has it mastered.
.brain>Well, only maurice that I am aware of.
.Chuck>Gordon, go ahead
.Gordon>Project G? ga
.brain>That's the code name for the new version of GEOS that CMD (MAurice Randall) is working on. You can get some information on it from the BBS at VICUG. (I assume everyone here knows of VICUG, and www.jbrain.com)..
.brain>.
.Gordon>THX
.eyeth>?
.Chuck>Eyeth
.eyeth>When will this conference end? I don't know Delphi protocol, but I would like to make an announcement before the end of the conference, and hope that you and Jim won't mind?
.Chuck>Ask Jim, and the con ends when people stop talking
.eyeth>ga
.brain>I don't mind....
.brain>.
.eyeth>!
.Chuck>Go ahead, Eyeth
.eyeth>Thank you for not minding. :) I would like to make an announcement-
.Chuck>Go for it
.eyeth>I have largely finished up my Dungeon Construction Set that was promised at the end of my Dungeon C=Hacking article #13. For more information, screenshots, etc. Please check out the website, the URL is...
http://ubmail.ubalt.edu/~telliott/phantasm.html
Thank you.
.eyeth>ga
.brain>Todd, make sure to put the URL in CaBooM!
.brain>.
.Chuck>Eyeth, you can also post that here
.eyeth>Chuck ?
.Tim>hi
.Chuck>Yes, Eyeth?
.eyeth>Which area? I am still new to Delphi. Thanks ga
.Chuck>Okay, in Com Com there are two places--we have one called "Member's Classifieds" and the other Commodore Central If your announcement is just an announcement put it in Com Central If you are selling the product, list it in Classifieds--and also, Eyeth, we allow members of Com Com to advertise on our business pages free ofcharge
.Chuck>ga
.Chuck>Any more questions or statements?
.brain>From Whom?
.Chuck>anyone--including you, Jim ;-)
.brain>Aha.
.Chuck>Jim, out side of Mauirce, how many independant programmers for the C= would you say there are now?
.brain>Um, I would say about 1000 actively programming. (serious)
.Susan>!
.Tim>?
.brain>That eliminates all the folks who just write for home use, or otehrwise
.brain>.
.Chuck>Susan, go ahead
.Susan>That's a lot of programmers! is anyone working on that GIF Viewer? (ga)
.brain>True it is a lot. I don;t know specifically what each is working on, but I would look to Maurice or Arkanix to write a fine GIF viewer. However, it'll probably costa few bucks.
.brain>.
.Chuck>Jim is there any central place where these programmers communicate back and forth?
.brain>Well, the Internet does that function for them. Programmers from Canada and Finland swapping code. There are global interest Web Sites, like VICUG in the US and FUNET.FI in Europe, where information is stored. The Internet, in it's ability to offer communication for all Commodore users, is making the Commodore computer a more viable solution in the 1990's That's not to take anything away from GENIE and DELPHI and CIS, but at one point, Commodore owners in each area were cut off from the others. Now, with the Internet to bridge the gap, each online service can provide a community or user group setting for it's members, while still being able to get answers from other places if the need arises.
.Chuck>This is true, but I do want to assure anyone, that Delphi's Commodore
Forum is open to anyone who wishes to join or just browse free
.brain>The Internet provides a basic method of getting information around the world cheaply.
.brain>.
.brain>Yes, in the last few years, things have improved greatly.
.Chuck>It has been our intent to provide a home and a safe port for the Commodore users of the world
.brain>It is just a fact though, that not everyone will enjoy one service. So, providing a link between
.brain>different areas covers all the bases. It's the same way with Commodore hacking, the magazine I edit. When I took over the magazine, it was full of information, but the presentation was lacking. So, I spruced up the presentation, but found that many old-line users wanted it back the old way.
.eyeth>!
.Chuck>O, Jim, another thing we are trying to get across is an open invitation for User Groups to post their News Letters here And also, your magazine is always welcome here
.brain>Now that's a good idea.
.brain>.
.Chuck>I want people to understand that Delphi is actively courting the Commodore Users, rather than trying to dump them
.brain>Yes, in some ways, the world is closing doors to the Commodore 8-bits.
.brain>Todd?
.eyeth>Yes. I think that the Internet has helped immesurably with the programming endeavors of individuals But, I think there should be a central repository of sorts- 1000 programmers with 1000 different agendas will produce little or no usable software for the CBM 8-bit community.
.Chuck>Quite true
.eyeth>With a little direction, etc. all of these individual's efforts could be used to produce apps that will have use, i.e., a web browser, ansi c compiler, GIF viewer, etc. Do you think that is possible? ga
.brain>Well, in my little world, I am trying to offer some ortder to the chaos that exists out in INternet Land.
.Chuck>I hope the C=ommodore Users will remember that I am a victim of the old Q, as is Joe.
.Tim>!
.brain>Long Live the Q.
.Gordon>?
.Chuck>Jim, please feel free to use the message board here to communicate as well.
.brain>Anyway, Todd, I think it can be done to some extent, but you'll always have
.Chuck>Yes Gordon?
.Gordon>Q?
.brain>a few folks that buck the trend.
.brain>.
.Chuck>Q-Link
.Gordon>oh
.Chuck>The origin of AOL
.Gordon>OK
.Chuck>Tim ?
.Joe>yeah MY MONEY built AOL
.Tim>Has there been anyone that has not been victimized by QLink?
.Gordon>Me
.Gordon>!
.Chuck>Go ahead
.Gordon>I got interested in C= after Q died
.Gordon>ga
.brain>A number of people have.
.brain>I get email on a regular basis from folks who have just discovered this platform. As well, some are re-discovering it.
.brain>.
.Chuck>We do too, in response to the guest book we have on the Web pages here
.brain>Before we wrap things up, I suppose I should let folks know about www.jbrain.com
.Chuck>O, and Susan has begun distribution of the Com Com newsletter
.Chuck>Go ahead, Jim
.brain>Well, it's nothing huge, but I just thought I would mention it. DELPHI is a nice comfy area, but if you ever do go exploring on the Internet, then you can come by and visit.
.Chuck>Can visit right from here as a matter of fact
.brain>My goal is simplistic. I like helping Commodore Users, but have little time, and the web is a neat place for me to dump all of my resources. So, my web site is like my desk. I know its there.
.Chuck>;-)
.brain>Also, I can get at the info no matter where I am. Helps at some times. It's better than having it on my computer at home, while I am at work. And chuck, I'd love to offer my resources on DELPHI, so that folks wouldn't have to come out to get them.
.eyeth>?
.Chuck>Good, Jim, please do so
.Chuck>Yes Eyeth?
.brain>Hoever, I have little time.... SO, if some kind soul at DELPHI wanted to come and get them once, that would be easiest. Which area on jbrain.com has the most usage, hit-wise? CaBooM? C=Hacking?
.eyeth>ga
.Tim>!
.brain>CaBooM! VICUG is second. The BBS is third.
.brain>.
.Chuck>Tim?
.Tim>I think my HTML version of your comp.sys.cbm faq, Jim, has been getting a lot of hits.
.Tim>ga
.brain>Great.
.eyeth>!
.brain>I am always encouraging people to help themselves to the resources at my site.
.brain>.
.Chuck>O, by the way--this Forum is also a part of the Commodore Ring
.Chuck>Go ahead Eyeth
.eyeth>Thank you for the chat. It was nice talking to you live. :)
.eyeth>And thanks for the CBM forum at Delphi. I will certainly explore it in the near future.
.brain>Yeah, I rarely have time to chat with folks one on one.
.eyeth>bye... ga to sk.
.Chuck>Okay
.Chuck>Folks, i think we'll call an end to the formal part of the Conference now.
.Chuck>So chat or what ever